I guess I'll go with the 6.5" component set in the front (kick panel and tweeter in the door) and that 5.25" component set in the rear. I don't want to put too many speakers on one single channel and thats what I was wondering about. But still nothing is set in stone, I'll see what I come up with when I can actually spend money, hehe, and I'll be sure to post my decision or any more thoughts.
What kind of audio setup do you have in your E36?
- Thread starter dirsh
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Well, as I understand it, jjjjjj, got his subs in the rear deck so they are pointing inside the cabin, if you ask me, thats a pretty killer set up.I think somebody else had a sub mounted in that dead space between the two parts of the rear seat when you put down the arm rest. Now that is something I would really love to do since you can put the arm rest up and no one can see the sub so its a stealth set up but when you want to crank it, put it down and there you go. One bad thing is that your size is limited unless you want the seats cutting off a bit of the sub. You know what, I guess you can just take out that metal piece that is separating the cabin from the trunk behind the rear arm rest and when you want bass, put the arm rest down, when you want a quite ride, get it up and it will seal out the outside sounds and noise. To tell you the truth, I never had a sub in my car and never put in a sub in anyone's car so I am just guessing but sometimes there might be a grain of truth in the ideas.
nooooooooooo.
there are already 6 tweets in the car guys. the 2 in the back, then there are 2 in each door (one super tweet in each, and one regular tweetin each), then there are 4 mids.
me personally, will only replace 2 of the tweeters up front, and disconnect the other 2 but leave them there instead of an open hole. and then replace the front mids. i wont have any rear speakers. i am leaving the holes open to vent the bass from the trunk into the cabin.
there are already 6 tweets in the car guys. the 2 in the back, then there are 2 in each door (one super tweet in each, and one regular tweetin each), then there are 4 mids.
me personally, will only replace 2 of the tweeters up front, and disconnect the other 2 but leave them there instead of an open hole. and then replace the front mids. i wont have any rear speakers. i am leaving the holes open to vent the bass from the trunk into the cabin.
jszar, I think I one the speakers that we consider a tweeter is a mid speaker by BMW standards and that regular size mid in the kickpanel is actually their sub, so.... its basically pretty sad. I guess for now I am going to do the same thing as far as the front tweeters go, leave two disconnected and replace the other two, then get everything in and see how it sounds, if I feel that there is a need for a sub, I will most probably get a 10 incher because a 12 is not as punchy and will be overkill for me. When I do that, I will need to some how crossover the front and rear "subs" (yes, infinity considers the 5.25" and 6.5" speakers subs) to act as mids. I really need to get into details about that HU, it has soooo much crap that it would take me a week to see what everything does and how I can run stuff without the manual which I probably wouldn't read anyway. Guys, I will tell you this, one killer place for a sub is where the spare tire is. One friend of mine, had a sub in there when he had a 300zx and he said that his friends tried everything, even macintosh amps to get the same sound and just couldn't.
ok, now i understand, you left a hole for the bass! cool, but don't you miss those speakers?
yes, i cut out (2) 10" round holes and basically used the rear deck, along with some wood, as part of my box, firing straight up, and reverberating off the rear glass. best sound yet.
...already tried the armrest idea, as i had a different custom angled box pointing toward the rear seats and lowered the armrest when i wanted extra bass. i thought it was a great setup, as a slide-out tray was fabricated over the speakerbox to hold the 2 amps and a 10 disk cd-changer (which is still worthless with subs unless at low volume, everywhere i put it, the bass knocks the cd's out) wiring caps and distrubution blocks. the only drawback to this setup was that the spare tire could only be removed after the speakerbox was pulled out...unfortunately, i blew a set of 10" speakers like this because one shorted out and took the other one with it as it was handling the full 1000 watts from the amp by itself. then the amp fried shortly after that. luckily, the 10's were under warranty so i re-soldered it back onto the cone and it sounded great for about a week when the same thing happened when i got a new (1200 watt) amp!! then i had to wait 5 weeks for new 10"s to come from the dealer...
after all this frustration with the speaker dealers, it was decided that the best possible setup was to cut the decklid and to hang a box from it was the only option for maximum sound with spare tire access, with amps mounted on the rear. it was installed 8 months ago and i've had no trouble since, plus 3 times the bass. that trunk it just too tight to throw a standard box in!!
there are some pretty sweet rides on this site below (in my signature, look near the top of my page for the "BMW 3 series" links) to get some more ideas from, but beware! as there is some major ricing going on...i didn't think you could fit 19" rims with hydraulics on an E36...
yes, i cut out (2) 10" round holes and basically used the rear deck, along with some wood, as part of my box, firing straight up, and reverberating off the rear glass. best sound yet.
...already tried the armrest idea, as i had a different custom angled box pointing toward the rear seats and lowered the armrest when i wanted extra bass. i thought it was a great setup, as a slide-out tray was fabricated over the speakerbox to hold the 2 amps and a 10 disk cd-changer (which is still worthless with subs unless at low volume, everywhere i put it, the bass knocks the cd's out) wiring caps and distrubution blocks. the only drawback to this setup was that the spare tire could only be removed after the speakerbox was pulled out...unfortunately, i blew a set of 10" speakers like this because one shorted out and took the other one with it as it was handling the full 1000 watts from the amp by itself. then the amp fried shortly after that. luckily, the 10's were under warranty so i re-soldered it back onto the cone and it sounded great for about a week when the same thing happened when i got a new (1200 watt) amp!! then i had to wait 5 weeks for new 10"s to come from the dealer...
after all this frustration with the speaker dealers, it was decided that the best possible setup was to cut the decklid and to hang a box from it was the only option for maximum sound with spare tire access, with amps mounted on the rear. it was installed 8 months ago and i've had no trouble since, plus 3 times the bass. that trunk it just too tight to throw a standard box in!!
there are some pretty sweet rides on this site below (in my signature, look near the top of my page for the "BMW 3 series" links) to get some more ideas from, but beware! as there is some major ricing going on...i didn't think you could fit 19" rims with hydraulics on an E36...
Hey guys, once again I need help. ![[?|]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_banghead.gif "Bang Head [?|]")
For a few days now I've been helping my neighboor set up his audio system and he decided to try out Sony (heres the link to them at circuit city, he bought the 6.5" set and 6x9" set http://www.circuitcity.com/searchre...593&fv=0&caller=searchresults.jsp&c=1&b=g&u=c ) this time (because he couldn't get the Kappas for cheap) and they didn't sound that bad at all. I don't know what to do now, go with 6.5" 3-way Sonys all the way around or get the Infinitis. Honestly I was pretty impressed with how they sounded, really. The Kappas in his other car (all 6x9s) didn't surprise me with the quality that much (could be because he still doesn't know how to set up that Alpine cda9813 headunit right), I mean, I guess they are clear and everything but the Sonys stood out with the clearity (maybe because we couldn't get other speakers and other HU set up good). Now, the question. Do you guys think I should go with the Sonys or save a bit and get Infinity? I guess what I'm asking is other people's opinions on both speakers. What do you guys think? Are sonys worth spending money on them or are they pieces of crap? Also, a little update, I am most probably getting that Alpine HU within the next 2 weeks for only $240, brand new at a nearby store, its the last one they are getting. Will probably blow the factory speakers right out. I'll report on that once I set it up and/or blow the speakers out, don't know if I will be laughing or crying if I blow the factory Nokias, [fake].
For a few days now I've been helping my neighboor set up his audio system and he decided to try out Sony (heres the link to them at circuit city, he bought the 6.5" set and 6x9" set http://www.circuitcity.com/searchre...593&fv=0&caller=searchresults.jsp&c=1&b=g&u=c ) this time (because he couldn't get the Kappas for cheap) and they didn't sound that bad at all. I don't know what to do now, go with 6.5" 3-way Sonys all the way around or get the Infinitis. Honestly I was pretty impressed with how they sounded, really. The Kappas in his other car (all 6x9s) didn't surprise me with the quality that much (could be because he still doesn't know how to set up that Alpine cda9813 headunit right), I mean, I guess they are clear and everything but the Sonys stood out with the clearity (maybe because we couldn't get other speakers and other HU set up good). Now, the question. Do you guys think I should go with the Sonys or save a bit and get Infinity? I guess what I'm asking is other people's opinions on both speakers. What do you guys think? Are sonys worth spending money on them or are they pieces of crap? Also, a little update, I am most probably getting that Alpine HU within the next 2 weeks for only $240, brand new at a nearby store, its the last one they are getting. Will probably blow the factory speakers right out. I'll report on that once I set it up and/or blow the speakers out, don't know if I will be laughing or crying if I blow the factory Nokias, [fake].
its McIntosh (McIntosh Labratories is the full name)...not macintosh. two very different companies.
by means of good sound from a sub...there are so many factors, i can only mention a few briefly.
1. the box - this is perhaps the single most important thing. incorrect size, poor materials, etc can DRASTICALLY affect the sound of the sub
2. the sub itself. many subs out there are decent, but if you want good sound, you have to pay for the expensive driver, and quality build materials that few comapnies put together.
3. the amp. using a McIntosh amp is great, in fact it doesnt get much better (if at all). BUT, you have to have a good driver/sub that will play the beats acuratly. and the sub can only play as good as the signal its provided.
this is where money comes into play. if you have a lot of it, you get the good stuff. there are still other cheaper alternatives, but overall, more money = better products.
the angle of the sub, up/down/sideways isnt too important. the most important property of position would be the distance betweent the wall directly across the face of the sub. sound waves need time to develop, really low frequencies are never heard in the car, because often the frequencies below say 25hz need several feet for their full amplitude to develop. (this explains why you can hear a car with subs from hundreds of feet away, but not so much when the car is up close)
like i said there are so many factors...so by saying to put a sub in the spare tire well is totally subjective to so many factors. its different in EVERY car.
by means of good sound from a sub...there are so many factors, i can only mention a few briefly.
1. the box - this is perhaps the single most important thing. incorrect size, poor materials, etc can DRASTICALLY affect the sound of the sub
2. the sub itself. many subs out there are decent, but if you want good sound, you have to pay for the expensive driver, and quality build materials that few comapnies put together.
3. the amp. using a McIntosh amp is great, in fact it doesnt get much better (if at all). BUT, you have to have a good driver/sub that will play the beats acuratly. and the sub can only play as good as the signal its provided.
this is where money comes into play. if you have a lot of it, you get the good stuff. there are still other cheaper alternatives, but overall, more money = better products.
the angle of the sub, up/down/sideways isnt too important. the most important property of position would be the distance betweent the wall directly across the face of the sub. sound waves need time to develop, really low frequencies are never heard in the car, because often the frequencies below say 25hz need several feet for their full amplitude to develop. (this explains why you can hear a car with subs from hundreds of feet away, but not so much when the car is up close)
like i said there are so many factors...so by saying to put a sub in the spare tire well is totally subjective to so many factors. its different in EVERY car.
andreyiv said:
Hey guys, once again I need help.
For a few days now I've been helping my neighboor set up his audio system and he decided to try out Sony (heres the link to them at circuit city, he bought the 6.5" set and 6x9" set http://www.circuitcity.com/searchre...593&fv=0&caller=searchresults.jsp&c=1&b=g&u=c ) this time (because he couldn't get the Kappas for cheap) and they didn't sound that bad at all. I don't know what to do now, go with 6.5" 3-way Sonys all the way around or get the Infinitis. Honestly I was pretty impressed with how they sounded, really. The Kappas in his other car (all 6x9s) didn't surprise me with the quality that much (could be because he still doesn't know how to set up that Alpine cda9813 headunit right), I mean, I guess they are clear and everything but the Sonys stood out with the clearity (maybe because we couldn't get other speakers and other HU set up good). Now, the question. Do you guys think I should go with the Sonys or save a bit and get Infinity? I guess what I'm asking is other people's opinions on both speakers. What do you guys think? Are sonys worth spending money on them or are they pieces of crap? Also, a little update, I am most probably getting that Alpine HU within the next 2 weeks for only $240, brand new at a nearby store, its the last one they are getting. Will probably blow the factory speakers right out. I'll report on that once I set it up and/or blow the speakers out, don't know if I will be laughing or crying if I blow the factory Nokias, [fake].
For a few days now I've been helping my neighboor set up his audio system and he decided to try out Sony (heres the link to them at circuit city, he bought the 6.5" set and 6x9" set http://www.circuitcity.com/searchre...593&fv=0&caller=searchresults.jsp&c=1&b=g&u=c ) this time (because he couldn't get the Kappas for cheap) and they didn't sound that bad at all. I don't know what to do now, go with 6.5" 3-way Sonys all the way around or get the Infinitis. Honestly I was pretty impressed with how they sounded, really. The Kappas in his other car (all 6x9s) didn't surprise me with the quality that much (could be because he still doesn't know how to set up that Alpine cda9813 headunit right), I mean, I guess they are clear and everything but the Sonys stood out with the clearity (maybe because we couldn't get other speakers and other HU set up good). Now, the question. Do you guys think I should go with the Sonys or save a bit and get Infinity? I guess what I'm asking is other people's opinions on both speakers. What do you guys think? Are sonys worth spending money on them or are they pieces of crap? Also, a little update, I am most probably getting that Alpine HU within the next 2 weeks for only $240, brand new at a nearby store, its the last one they are getting. Will probably blow the factory speakers right out. I'll report on that once I set it up and/or blow the speakers out, don't know if I will be laughing or crying if I blow the factory Nokias, [fake].
Sony. They are a multi billion dollar corporation. They manufactur their products in China, and wherever the hell else, for next to nothing out of pocket. They market their products by the term "Explode"...and indeed, there are many instinces of sony stuff actually exploding without cause. They have around 5 years experience in developing car audio, when they started they knew nothing at all, it was basically just thrown together and sold, this explains its lack of quality and durabilty. 5 years later, they have learned of few things, but still..they are up against companies that have done this for 30+ years, most comany owners are hobbiests themselves, they're old school/hardcore/diehards of car audio...they know it all. sony is trusted only because of their name, but in reality, they are babies in the manufaturing world of car audio products.
it may sound good for a time, but sony (car audio division) is notorious for faulty products, that break within a years time, NOT ALWAYS...but often.
one last thing. this is a personal belief...ANY compnay that states the MAX power rating on the front of the box like an F-ing poop stain on white underwear SHOULDNT be trusted. MAX power is essentially meaningless! this only means that they arent in this realm of business for the consumers, they want the money, that they know they can get from people that dont understand these facts. they only buy it because its Sony, and sony is a word recognized all over the world...this doesnt make it good though. (kinda like the taliban)!
btw, an alpine HU wont blow those speakers. its only like 25 watts rms each channel. and thats pretty dirty power too. (any HU's power is dirty, because its a small power supply that is crammed in a hot case, and is over worked, this is why we have external amps)
I knew McIntosh was spelled differently but couldn't figure out how because I don't have that much money to spend and just don't go into that type of high quality stuff but I am sorry for that mistake.
I did hear that sony HUs break a lot from many people and did find a few reviews of those speakers where the person says that they broke within a short period of time and the waranty only goes for 30 days so new speakers were needed. I guess I am not buying those.
Oh, I thought the nokias that are in the car might get fried because they are pretty old and who knows what happened to that paper element in almost 10 years.
I don't know what to do about speakers now, heh. jszar, what would you put in the car (in terms of speakers, no sub) if you had a budget of a bit lower than $200? I agree with your personal believe BTW, its like comparing those 1000W flashy home stereos to a conservative looking reciever that only give out 500W total, but rms.
About the HU pushing out dirty sound, I might put a small amp to help it out, something like 30rms, I am not going for really loud sound or bass, just when I turn the factory unit a bit high, I get pretty crappy sound. Also, what do you think about that Alpine HU? Good or bad?
Thanks for all that help and thanks for showing me the right path, I knew those sonys should be crap in one way or another but I have to tell you, they did give out pretty clear sound and had good, punchy bass too.
I did hear that sony HUs break a lot from many people and did find a few reviews of those speakers where the person says that they broke within a short period of time and the waranty only goes for 30 days so new speakers were needed. I guess I am not buying those.
Oh, I thought the nokias that are in the car might get fried because they are pretty old and who knows what happened to that paper element in almost 10 years.
I don't know what to do about speakers now, heh. jszar, what would you put in the car (in terms of speakers, no sub) if you had a budget of a bit lower than $200? I agree with your personal believe BTW, its like comparing those 1000W flashy home stereos to a conservative looking reciever that only give out 500W total, but rms.
About the HU pushing out dirty sound, I might put a small amp to help it out, something like 30rms, I am not going for really loud sound or bass, just when I turn the factory unit a bit high, I get pretty crappy sound. Also, what do you think about that Alpine HU? Good or bad?
Thanks for all that help and thanks for showing me the right path, I knew those sonys should be crap in one way or another but I have to tell you, they did give out pretty clear sound and had good, punchy bass too.
i'm not telling you not to get them. its your choice, if you wanna gamble with it, go for it.
that alpine is pretty good yeah, especially for the money.
you cant get another amp to 'help out' the power supply in the hu. it doesnt work that way.
look at low end MB Quart, their Discus line. Personally, I wont put coaxials in my car, i want components, and the ones i am saving for are $400. look also at Polk audio.
that alpine is pretty good yeah, especially for the money.
you cant get another amp to 'help out' the power supply in the hu. it doesnt work that way.
look at low end MB Quart, their Discus line. Personally, I wont put coaxials in my car, i want components, and the ones i am saving for are $400. look also at Polk audio.
No, I didn't mean it like that, just asking for your advice for which I am very thankful.
About another amp to help out, you mean if I use the 4vpreout? I was thinking of maybe getting a high input amp so I connect the speaker output to that and then speakers to the amp.
I just thought about the whole thing and I think I will save up a bit and then get what I was saying I wanted (Infinity Kappa 6.5" component set up front and 5.25" component set in the rear) for a few reasons. I checked on ebay and everything might come oout to just about 240 so its worth saving up. I also realized that the sonys might sound pretty good to the Infinitys he has in his SUV because who knows, maybe they are references, circuitcity has pretty crappy description to a lot of speakers, they just say Infinity 5 1/2 inch speaker but usually it doesn't tell you if its references or kappas so I think I am better off with ebay. I also thought about the "helping out" amp and screw that for now, if I will feel that the HU is giving out crap at the volume I listen to (not too loud, definately not as loud as factory set up will go) I might get a small amp and use the preouts. I'll update if anything changes and thanks for all the advice.
About another amp to help out, you mean if I use the 4vpreout? I was thinking of maybe getting a high input amp so I connect the speaker output to that and then speakers to the amp.
I just thought about the whole thing and I think I will save up a bit and then get what I was saying I wanted (Infinity Kappa 6.5" component set up front and 5.25" component set in the rear) for a few reasons. I checked on ebay and everything might come oout to just about 240 so its worth saving up. I also realized that the sonys might sound pretty good to the Infinitys he has in his SUV because who knows, maybe they are references, circuitcity has pretty crappy description to a lot of speakers, they just say Infinity 5 1/2 inch speaker but usually it doesn't tell you if its references or kappas so I think I am better off with ebay. I also thought about the "helping out" amp and screw that for now, if I will feel that the HU is giving out crap at the volume I listen to (not too loud, definately not as loud as factory set up will go) I might get a small amp and use the preouts. I'll update if anything changes and thanks for all the advice.
well, using high level inputs on an amp...the amp only absorbs the signal, it doesnt add to the strength.
also, a problem you encounter with this, is when you turn the volume up at the HU, the signal is distorted...so the amp will only get a distorted signal to reproduce, it doesnt clean it up any.
this is why there are rca's. you eliminate the power supply and work with pure signal. this signal is not able to be sent straight to a speaker, this is where the amp comes in. the power supplys in hu's are crammed together, they get really hot, and dont usually have as many components in them that external amps have, because there isnt any room.
also, a problem you encounter with this, is when you turn the volume up at the HU, the signal is distorted...so the amp will only get a distorted signal to reproduce, it doesnt clean it up any.
this is why there are rca's. you eliminate the power supply and work with pure signal. this signal is not able to be sent straight to a speaker, this is where the amp comes in. the power supplys in hu's are crammed together, they get really hot, and dont usually have as many components in them that external amps have, because there isnt any room.
I know exactly what you mean, that is why I think it is kind of stupid to buy an HU with a built in display and a DVD player and at the same time expect quality sound out of it without an amp.
I didn't know that a high input amp would just absorb the amped sound and start from scratch, thanks for clearing that up for me. Now I see that it was a good idea to get a new HU instead of keeping that old one.
But for now, I think I made the right choice, I mean, I am saving a bit of money on the amp by getting a headunit that can power the speakers without one and when I do get an amp, I can still keep that good HU (just add on to the whole thing) and since I will get the speakers I want right away, I won't have to scrap them. I am pretty much happy now, I mean, I am not wasting money by getting anything I will have to scrap later on and if I want better sound, the speakers will provide enough for me, will just have to get an amp and maybe a sub. Didn't think I would say this but I think if I go with the Kappas I will be spending money efficiently. I guess I will sell the HU I have now (BMW business CD player) and keep the old one with the old speakers so when I sell the car (if I do sell the car) I can keep everything for the next car and just put all the old stuff in this one. What do you think? DOes that sound like a good plan for somebody on a budget?
I didn't know that a high input amp would just absorb the amped sound and start from scratch, thanks for clearing that up for me. Now I see that it was a good idea to get a new HU instead of keeping that old one.
But for now, I think I made the right choice, I mean, I am saving a bit of money on the amp by getting a headunit that can power the speakers without one and when I do get an amp, I can still keep that good HU (just add on to the whole thing) and since I will get the speakers I want right away, I won't have to scrap them. I am pretty much happy now, I mean, I am not wasting money by getting anything I will have to scrap later on and if I want better sound, the speakers will provide enough for me, will just have to get an amp and maybe a sub. Didn't think I would say this but I think if I go with the Kappas I will be spending money efficiently. I guess I will sell the HU I have now (BMW business CD player) and keep the old one with the old speakers so when I sell the car (if I do sell the car) I can keep everything for the next car and just put all the old stuff in this one. What do you think? DOes that sound like a good plan for somebody on a budget?
jszar, what speakers are you saving up for? Oh and kappas are good right? Not just a myth people keep alive. Oh and also, what do you think would be a good 4 channel amp with about 100rms per channel or a bit less, just something to go with the kappas. I am in now position to put it in now but just for the future, since we are already on the subject.
I forgot one thing. I was reading a few things on crutchfield.com and they said that its better when the different types of speakers (mid and tweeter for example) help out imaging when you put them close together. Lets say the HU has time correction (like mine does) and when you go to set that up, the sistance between the mid in the kickpanel and the tweeter in the door is different but you can't use the time correction feature because they are on the same channel, yet both of them are closer to your ear then any of the rear speakers. That whole thing got me thinking, maybe its a good idea for me to use a coaxial or even a triaxial speaker in the kick panel. I remember you said that you will not use coaxials in your car, can you tell me why that is? Are they that much worse than a component set? Sorry for that many questions, I just want to get the most out of my money spend, who knows when I will get an amp or do anything else. Thanks for the quick answers though.
Completely agree with Jszar on the whole Sony thing. I like their electronics, but when it comes to car audio, they are not the market leaders. I've had several get the Xploders because they were cheap and within a fw months the speakers sounded horrific. Every one that I know who bought Xploders have replaced them since their purchase.
all your questions are very good. and at one time i didnt know the answers either. after reading, and asking q's of my own i learned most of the answers. but also, after a while, you just understand the science of the way things work, most times its hard to explain like in the case with coaxials vs. components. i'll try to explain it, but it might come out wrong.
basically, a coaxial speaker is a tweeter in the middle, and the mid around it. there is a gap in between the center peice, and the cone area for the mid. this dramatically causes loss in every aspect of sound. the way speakers work is by making certain frequnecies, and with mids and subs, they make their low freq's by moving a lot of air. that gap is not bad, but it does cause a loss.
components are individual speakers. they are harder to place, and less convenient that coaxials, but each speaker has its designated job...and usually there is a crossover within a few feet of the components, giving each speaker ONLY the frequencies it can and should play....dramatically increasing sound clarity.
coaxials are fed every frequency, even the bass that they cant play. they do try, andcomes out as distortion after the volume makes it impossible to play cleary with all the other frequencies it plays.
infinity kappa is great stuff. just look at alpine for a good 4 channel.
the components i am getting are Arc Audio ACS 230.
basically, a coaxial speaker is a tweeter in the middle, and the mid around it. there is a gap in between the center peice, and the cone area for the mid. this dramatically causes loss in every aspect of sound. the way speakers work is by making certain frequnecies, and with mids and subs, they make their low freq's by moving a lot of air. that gap is not bad, but it does cause a loss.
components are individual speakers. they are harder to place, and less convenient that coaxials, but each speaker has its designated job...and usually there is a crossover within a few feet of the components, giving each speaker ONLY the frequencies it can and should play....dramatically increasing sound clarity.
coaxials are fed every frequency, even the bass that they cant play. they do try, andcomes out as distortion after the volume makes it impossible to play cleary with all the other frequencies it plays.
infinity kappa is great stuff. just look at alpine for a good 4 channel.
the components i am getting are Arc Audio ACS 230.