M3 /M5 ratings

rwhelan · May 13, 2006

I would like to know how the various generations of M3s and M5s are viewed one against the other as to performance and looks. Also what are the various chips that have been added aftermarket and what function do they perform and how?

gpoints · May 15, 2006

I could be wrong but I think "top gear" did a review of all of the M cars ever built.

In terms of software mods for the e46 M, there really isn't much power to be gained from a chip. You can check out "Madrussian.net" for some info and reviews on some of the more popular mods for the e46 M.

epj3 · May 15, 2006

As far as performance mods, a 1995 M3 (e36) is your best bet in most states. I think (personally) the looks of all M's are fine except the e28 M5 US version, those big bumpers totally ruin the car. E46 is heaviest M, followed by e36, followed by e30...go figure! handling ability is in that same order, e46 the best (simply due to pure technology going into the suspension)

MrElussive · May 15, 2006

E46 M3 is a maniac with raw acceleration.

E39 M5 is an amazingly well-balanced sport sedan...quiet and comfortable, but an absolute animal under hard acceleration and through the turns. It loves to kick the tail out.

4DSC · May 15, 2006

In Gran Turismo 4, the E60 M5 sets faster lap times then the new Viper, C5 ZO6, NSX-R, M3 GTR road version, etc. consistantly in any track. Just thought I'd throw that in. [;)]

brahtw8 · May 16, 2006

4DSC said:

In real life, the E60 M5 laps slower than all of those cars. It has yet to break 8 minutes at the ring. Gotta love video games.

epj3 · May 16, 2006

brahtw8 said:

Uh actually it's broken 8 minutes by quite a bit... And the only cars on his short list that beat the M5 was the Z06 and M3 CSL (gtr would obviously be quicker). I doubt any of the new bmw M's will do the nurburgring in more than 8 minutes.

7:32* -- 164.071 km/h – Pagani Zonda F, 650 PS/ 1230 kg, (*mfr.)
7:32.44 163.911 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, definitive time Horst von Saurma (sport auto 01/04)
7:32.52 163.882 km/h -- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann (sport auto 01)
7:34 --- 163.586 km/h – Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1180 kg, Horst von Saurma, oct,17-18 05
7:36 --- 162.631 km/h -- AC-Schnitzer M3 CLS II E46, 360 hp, Michelín Sport Cup R , Mattias Ekblom
7:36 --- 162.631 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, 612 PS/ 1475 kg, factory test driver Walther Roehrl (02)
7:39 --- 161.575 km/h -- Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1180 kg
7:40* -- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, , 612 PS/ 1475 kg, *cold and partially wet track (sport auto 12/03)
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche GT3 RS, stock but Pirelli P Zero Corsa, Mattias Ekblom (ams)
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren, Klaus Ludwig (Autobild 07/04)
7:41 --- 160.868 km/h -- Manthey Porsche GT3 M410, 413hp (AutoBild 07/04)
7:42* -- 160.519 km/h – Ford GT 40, 550 PS/ 1521 kg (*as indicated by Octane magazine, 11/05)
7:42 --- 160.519 km/h -- Mosler MT900S Photon, Joao Barbosa, (04) (according to dailysportscar.net)
7:42 --- 160.519 km/h -- Radical 1500 SR3, 230 PS/510 kg (02)
7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h -- Corvette Z06, 500 PS / 1319 kg, Jan Magnusen, (Sporbilen, jun,26 05)
7:43 --- 160.173 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Roehrl (MOTOR magazine)
7:43 --- 160.173 km/h -- TechArt Porsche GT Street, 620 PS/1453 kg, (sport auto 08/02)
7:43.5 - 160,000 km/h -- Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine 02)
7:44 --- 159.828 km/h -- Pagani Zonda C12 S, 555 PS/1388 kg (sport auto 07/02)
7:45 --- 159.484 km/h -- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600, 600hp (00)
7:45* -- 159.484 km/h -- McLaren F1, *estimated lap time from a video available at pistonheads.tv
7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT2, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/01)
7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- Jaguar XJ220, John Walton (EVO magazine 07/00)
7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652hp (sport auto 99)
7:47 --- 158.801 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381hp (sport auto 03/04)
7.49 --- 158.124 km/h -- Porsche GT3, 392hp (AutoBild 2004)
7:49 --- 158.124 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup, 360 PS/1207 kg (sport auto 02/99)
7:49.72 157.885 km/h -- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (93) (moto bike)
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- BMW E46 M3 CSL (sport auto 08/03)
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Blitz Supra, 750hp, Herbert Schuerg (97)
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Lamborghini Murcielago, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/02)
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Westfield Super 7 with Hayabusa engine
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- BMW M5 (E60), 507 PS/1844 kg
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (sport auto 95)
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (sport auto 12/03)
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (sport auto 06/04)
7:54 --- 156.456 km/h -- Mercedes CLK DTM AMG, 582bPS/1678kg, (sport auto 03/05)
7:54 --- 156.456 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 (sport auto 06/03)
7:55* --- 156. km/h Ferrari F430 F1 (sport auto 12/05)
7:55 --- 156.126 km/h -- Caterham R500 Superlight, Robert Nearn (EVO magazine 07/00)
7:56 --- 155.798 km/h -- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, 425 PS/1387 kg (sport auto 02/04)
7:56 --- 155.798 km/h -- Porsche 996 Turbo, 420 PS/1569 kg (sport auto 06/00)
7:56* -- 155.798 km/h -- Chevrolet Corvette Z05 ,company chief engineer Dave Hill (*mfr.)
7:56.73 155.569 km/h -- Honda NXC-R (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion", lap not completed)
7:57 --- 155.472 km/h -- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600PS/1558 kg (sport auto 05/98)
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Performance”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)
7:59* -- 154.822 km/h -- Chevrolet C6 Z51, company test driver Dave Hill (*mfr.)
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, Dirk Schoymans (Autocar magazine 97)
7:59.41 154.690 km/h -- Subaru Impreza WRX STi spec.C "prototype" (2004)
8:01.72 153.984 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:02 --- 153.858 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Sport”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 04)
8:03 --- 153.540 km/h – Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 385 PS/1636 kg, Pirelli P Zero Corsa (sport auto 10/05)
8:03 --- 153.540 km/h -- Porsche 911 GT3, 360 PS/1391 kg (sport auto 08/99)
8:04 --- 153.223 km/h -- Lamborghini Diablo GT, 575 PS/1620 kg (sport auto 07/00)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1, 580 PS/1820 kg (sport auto 12/02)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM settino “Standard”, Walter Roehrl (WHEELS 06/04)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355PS/1461kg (sport auto 05/05)
8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Ruf CTR
8:06 --- 152.592 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG (sport auto 04/02)
8:06.01 152.589 km/h -- Subaru WRX Sti C-spec (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:07 --- 152.279 km/h -- Ferrari 550 Maranello, 485 PS/1724 kg (sport auto 06/98)
8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- Honda NSX-R, 320 PS/1467 kg (sport auto 08/02)
8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- Ferrari 360 Modena , 400 PS/1464 kg (sport auto 10/99)
8:09 --- 151.656 km/h -- Lamborghini Diablo SV, 520 PS/1590 kg (sport auto 12/97)
8:10 --- 151.114 km/h -- Aston Martin V8 Vantage (Top Gear 02/05)
8:10 --- 151.114 km/h -- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411 PS/1567 kg (sport auto 10/97)

brahtw8 · May 16, 2006

Sorry. I was stuck on 8:09 for some reason. At 7:52 it is indeed faster.

4DSC · May 16, 2006

brahtw8 said:

Yeah, you gotta love em' cause I pulled a 7:47 with it. Thats pretty damn close to what it did in real life.

rwhelan · May 17, 2006

As I read it the E39 M5 generation runs from 1996 to 2005. Is that correct and is the engine and suspension the same through all those years?

wizard · May 19, 2006

I just took delivery of an E60 M5..I picked it up about a month ago and can honestly say it's one incredible machine. I just had my required tune-up at 1200 miles so I coudn't activate the M button until then. This thing eats people it's so nasty.

brahtw8 · May 19, 2006

rwhelan said:

That is not correct. The E39 5 series ran from 1997-2003 MY. The E39 M5 ran from the 1999-2003 model year. The mechanicals are essentially the same for all E39 M5s, with some minor changes each year.

brahtw8 · May 19, 2006

wizard said:

Congrats on the M5. Now you can remove the Charcoal Filters (only on US models) and gain some power. http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=66688

Check out www.m5board.com if you are not already a member. It is M5 nirvana.

wizard · May 19, 2006

Remove charcoal filters? I'll have to read up on that...thanks.

wizard · May 19, 2006

brahtw8 said:

How is the NSX compared to a 911?..I still have my porsche but always wanted to test drive an NSX.

4DSC · May 19, 2006

You lucky sons-a-guns!

911 [:o]

NSX

E60 M5

brahtw8 · May 20, 2006

wizard said:

I suggest you get behind the wheel of an NSX ASAP and find out what it has to offer. The NSX is a truly outstanding automobile. The steering and feel of the car are like nothing else I have driven.

It is so well balanced and pure of purpose that it is still very competitive with the modern 911. It shares some of the inherent characteristics of a rear weight-bias, but is different in feel and character. The low but perfect driving position and intake behind your ear in the NSX add to the experience. The feel of the shifter is excellent.

The engine rewards far more than some give it credit and there are proven aftermarket solutions for significant additional power and performance at prices relatively reasonable when compared to some of the Porsche aftermarket. When you drive it, understand that although it has torque and is driveable at low RPM, the powerband is from 5000-8000 and the engine can run at high rpm all day. The engine can take 9500 rpm without incident. At 10,500 you start to bend valves.

Check www.nsxprime.com for much more thorough comparisons from current and former Porsche/NSX owners, including multiple NSX/911 threads with first-person knowledge of both. Many of the NSX owners and enthusiasts have many fine vehicles and can pretty much drive whatever they want (not me, yet). You could probably find someone local to meet up with and compare vehicles.

I have long been a 911 fan and would love to have both an NSX and a 911 (or three) in the garage. I have been browsing the 996 C4S and TT market for a couple of years for a future daily driver as the prices come down.

4DSC · May 21, 2006

Off topic: Too bad they won't be making the wonderful NSX ever again [:(]

Braht, do you know if they kept the same platform for each NSX generation? Or once they gave it a facelife, they completely changed everything?

brahtw8 · May 24, 2006

4DSC said:

The short answer is that the NSX chassis did not change from 1991-2005. The biggest difference is between the coupe and the targa (T).

See http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/faq.htm for virtually everything you could ever want to know about an NSX.

Changes by model year are here:

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/General/changesbyyear.htm

4DSC · May 30, 2006

Thats some chassis.. Thanks.

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