HK sound system
- Thread starter Dekion
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![[rofl]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_rofl.gif "ROFL [rofl]"){kind=icon}
Wretchy,
Sorry, I don't know how to wire the subs since I had it all done professionally.
William330,
I agree with you mostly.
Except for a few things:
1. You cannot swap the speakers and then later add a different amp. These have to be done at the same time. And splicing a new line doesn't work because of the 2 Ohm issue(see prior posts).
2. Diamond Audio is considered one of the best speakers by those in 'the know' ;-)
3. And please don't say to anyone that paper is acceptable for any stereo since 1992. Paper is 50 year old technology in speakers and you couldn't buy paper in any high end stereo system even if you tried since no one is foolish enough to try to sell it to you... Paper simply cannot reproduce the punch, bass, or fidelity of modern materials and that is why only factory (read: cheap) systems use it. This is why it is such a rip-off that BMWs 'Premium' system uses it...
4. I agree that good sound comes mostly from good speakers/amp, but don't discount the sub. I thought subs were only about boom boom, but now I know that it is an essential filler to the music and adds depth and overall much better sound. Don't skip the sub!
Thanks-
Sorry, I don't know how to wire the subs since I had it all done professionally.
William330,
I agree with you mostly.
Except for a few things:
1. You cannot swap the speakers and then later add a different amp. These have to be done at the same time. And splicing a new line doesn't work because of the 2 Ohm issue(see prior posts).
2. Diamond Audio is considered one of the best speakers by those in 'the know' ;-)
3. And please don't say to anyone that paper is acceptable for any stereo since 1992. Paper is 50 year old technology in speakers and you couldn't buy paper in any high end stereo system even if you tried since no one is foolish enough to try to sell it to you... Paper simply cannot reproduce the punch, bass, or fidelity of modern materials and that is why only factory (read: cheap) systems use it. This is why it is such a rip-off that BMWs 'Premium' system uses it...
4. I agree that good sound comes mostly from good speakers/amp, but don't discount the sub. I thought subs were only about boom boom, but now I know that it is an essential filler to the music and adds depth and overall much better sound. Don't skip the sub!
Thanks-
![[:D]](/images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin [:D]")
I just picked up my used 323ci a few hours ago and I'm trying to figure out in the manual or in the car if I have the DSP onboard.
I'm hoping the car doesn't have DSP, but I'm not exactly sure how to tell.
My car has the optional HK sound system and a button for sound enhancement next to the DSC button.
I do not see a DSP button though? should there be one if I have DSP?
worm
I'm hoping the car doesn't have DSP, but I'm not exactly sure how to tell.
My car has the optional HK sound system and a button for sound enhancement next to the DSC button.
I do not see a DSP button though? should there be one if I have DSP?
worm
In today's digital media age, it's more than just great sound, it's jamming my entire music collection onto some removable storage and putting it into my car to be accessed through smart playlists. I could care less about a 6-CD changer when I can put 100 CD's on an SD card or some such.
The Phatbox looks very interesting in this regard. Has anyone installed one in their car and have any comments? Did you do it yourself or have an audio shop do it? (looking to replace my HK system in my 2003 M3 with something).
Thx
The Phatbox looks very interesting in this regard. Has anyone installed one in their car and have any comments? Did you do it yourself or have an audio shop do it? (looking to replace my HK system in my 2003 M3 with something).
Thx
Re: Agreed
I just hooked up the Peripheral BMWPILA
http://peripheralelectronics.com/2002/aux_in.asp
to my 323ci so I can use my mini disc player as aux in or any other portable audio device...
Heres a nice install someone posted awhile back
http://jeff.quartzcomm.com/bmw/e46mp3/
The only hard part is just figuring out how to run the RCAs to the front of the car and mounting the device in the trunk...other than that its a breeze.
on Peripheral's site
http://peripheralelectronics.com/2002/aux_in.asp
it is a bit confusing in that they don't show the newest update or I can't find it.
I believe the BMWPILX and BMWALPX are not being made right now or discontinued, but they updated the original BMWPILA to a new version (6.0) which does NOT need a changer for the aux input to work.
Make sure you get the version 6.0 if you don't have a changer, it will say on the bottom of the device.
The only stooopid thing I did was when I pulled the light plate cover that holds the bulbs for the tail lights I snapped the piece of plastic that holds that housing on (duh), which I bet BMW charges you like $50-100 for that stupid piece.
nothing a few zip ties couldn't fix though
worm
I just hooked up the Peripheral BMWPILA
http://peripheralelectronics.com/2002/aux_in.asp
to my 323ci so I can use my mini disc player as aux in or any other portable audio device...
Heres a nice install someone posted awhile back
http://jeff.quartzcomm.com/bmw/e46mp3/
The only hard part is just figuring out how to run the RCAs to the front of the car and mounting the device in the trunk...other than that its a breeze.
on Peripheral's site
http://peripheralelectronics.com/2002/aux_in.asp
it is a bit confusing in that they don't show the newest update or I can't find it.
I believe the BMWPILX and BMWALPX are not being made right now or discontinued, but they updated the original BMWPILA to a new version (6.0) which does NOT need a changer for the aux input to work.
Make sure you get the version 6.0 if you don't have a changer, it will say on the bottom of the device.
The only stooopid thing I did was when I pulled the light plate cover that holds the bulbs for the tail lights I snapped the piece of plastic that holds that housing on (duh), which I bet BMW charges you like $50-100 for that stupid piece.
nothing a few zip ties couldn't fix though
worm
Why would this not work? Did BMW make the HK system 2 ohms,
when all other car audio speakers are 4 ohms?
(It wouldn't surprise me if they did. Bastards.)
Are they a fairly new company? Never heard of them, but I
haven't been into a car audio store in a couple of years.
MB Quart and Boston Acoustics have been around for many
years, and will likely be around for any warranty repairs in the
future.
Try and compare.
Sorry, this is not true. Dunlavy speakers use paper cones for
starters, and they can run over $10,000/pair. High-end speakers
that use paper cones apply treatments to the "paper".
High tech materials may be more marketable (Kevlar looks very
sexy, for example), but it doesn't necessarily mean better sound.
It's all about the overall speaker design -- different materials have
different pros and cons.
Well, the discussion here was mainly about appearance issues.
It's hard to hide a sub in a car.
For home stereo, though, the highest quality systems do not use
a sub, because it smears the soundstage, reducing overall fidelity.
At home, I have two NHT SubTwo subwoofers for movies but I leave
them off for music, because they reduce overall sound fidelity.
Happy motoring.
when all other car audio speakers are 4 ohms?
(It wouldn't surprise me if they did. Bastards.)
Are they a fairly new company? Never heard of them, but I
haven't been into a car audio store in a couple of years.
MB Quart and Boston Acoustics have been around for many
years, and will likely be around for any warranty repairs in the
future.
Try and compare.
Sorry, this is not true. Dunlavy speakers use paper cones for
starters, and they can run over $10,000/pair. High-end speakers
that use paper cones apply treatments to the "paper".
High tech materials may be more marketable (Kevlar looks very
sexy, for example), but it doesn't necessarily mean better sound.
It's all about the overall speaker design -- different materials have
different pros and cons.
Well, the discussion here was mainly about appearance issues.
It's hard to hide a sub in a car.
For home stereo, though, the highest quality systems do not use
a sub, because it smears the soundstage, reducing overall fidelity.
At home, I have two NHT SubTwo subwoofers for movies but I leave
them off for music, because they reduce overall sound fidelity.
Happy motoring.
Schief,
Look at Big Worms second link on how to install the cd changer- the aftermarket MP3 hard-drive jukeboxes such as Dmp3 and Phatnoise will go in this same location. I haven't installed one yet, but I'm leaning toward Phatnoise.. only problem $859 bucks for the 20 gig unit is a little steep :-(
But it does integrate with factory steering wheel controls
William 330,
1. Yes they did. Yes I agree they are bastards :-( The BMW system is 2 ohms which is why nothing except the head unit is compatible with anything aftermarket (which is standardized at either 4 ohms or 8 ohms).
2. Diamond has been around for years, but they cater only to higher end so you won't see them 'around' in say Circuit City.
3. Yes, to get good sound out of paper, you would have to spend 10 grand ;-)
Everything I have read in the past 4 months on searches like 'speaker materials' in Google EG, is that paper is an inferior material which is not used anymore except on factory stereos where it is only used bc it is cheap...
This has been confirmed and reinforced by high-end car stereo shops here in the Bellevue/Seattle area. And by other 'vendors' such as crutchfield.com.
This link at Crutchfield explains in more detail why paper is inferior for woofers, mid-bass, and tweaters respectively:
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-mqztb82Sh6Z/learningcenter/car/speakers.html
Paper was used in the past since there was no other solution, and yes, getting good sound out of it required extremely costly coatings and treatments, but now there are better materials which are mass produced and feasable for production...
4. On subs the first thing that comes to mind is get a good one. My suggestion before was to spend heavily on the sub/amp/and speakers. If you cut corners anywhere get cheaper coaxials for the rear, but DON'T go cheap on the sub/amp/or front speakers.
Go to a CAR stereo shop and you will see just how far superior the sound quality when there's a sub in the car.
BRING YOUR OWN CD TO LISTEN ON MULTIPLE SYSTEMS.
This is very importand as it gives you a 'standard' to compare with.
With CAR stereos, the speakers are much smaller and much less powered than a home stereo, also the music stage has to be set in a far smaller area. So when researching car stereos remember that it is not at all the same as home stereos. You actually CAN get good sound in a home stereo without a sub, but in the car, entire instruments will be just plain MISSING.
I used the same CD to demo before and after I got the sub and the difference was 'night and day' better with the sub, believe me I didn't want a sub either(esp. since I cannot stand boom boom cars), but after I heard Sting and Madonna with a sub and heard new instruments that I hadn't heard before, I just couldn't go back...
One note I will make is that you have to have the sub tuned for your system for it to enhance the sound. The frequency cutoff has to be matched to your other speakers and this is a very important step. This is done at the crossover, then fine tuned on the amp...
Also, if the sub is tuned too strong or too low or high, you will not get optimal sound out of your system as a whole.
Again, all I can say is Go and Listen...
And go to a professional shop- don't 'do it yourself' if you want it done right.
And use your Own CD for ALL COMPARISONS.
That being said, a sub is hidden in your car. It is in the trunk, and if you wish, is quite easily removable ;-)
My interior looks 100% stock, and I won't have it any other way.
Look at Big Worms second link on how to install the cd changer- the aftermarket MP3 hard-drive jukeboxes such as Dmp3 and Phatnoise will go in this same location. I haven't installed one yet, but I'm leaning toward Phatnoise.. only problem $859 bucks for the 20 gig unit is a little steep :-(
But it does integrate with factory steering wheel controls
William 330,
1. Yes they did. Yes I agree they are bastards :-( The BMW system is 2 ohms which is why nothing except the head unit is compatible with anything aftermarket (which is standardized at either 4 ohms or 8 ohms).
2. Diamond has been around for years, but they cater only to higher end so you won't see them 'around' in say Circuit City.
3. Yes, to get good sound out of paper, you would have to spend 10 grand ;-)
Everything I have read in the past 4 months on searches like 'speaker materials' in Google EG, is that paper is an inferior material which is not used anymore except on factory stereos where it is only used bc it is cheap...
This has been confirmed and reinforced by high-end car stereo shops here in the Bellevue/Seattle area. And by other 'vendors' such as crutchfield.com.
This link at Crutchfield explains in more detail why paper is inferior for woofers, mid-bass, and tweaters respectively:
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/S-mqztb82Sh6Z/learningcenter/car/speakers.html
Paper was used in the past since there was no other solution, and yes, getting good sound out of it required extremely costly coatings and treatments, but now there are better materials which are mass produced and feasable for production...
4. On subs the first thing that comes to mind is get a good one. My suggestion before was to spend heavily on the sub/amp/and speakers. If you cut corners anywhere get cheaper coaxials for the rear, but DON'T go cheap on the sub/amp/or front speakers.
Go to a CAR stereo shop and you will see just how far superior the sound quality when there's a sub in the car.
BRING YOUR OWN CD TO LISTEN ON MULTIPLE SYSTEMS.
This is very importand as it gives you a 'standard' to compare with.
With CAR stereos, the speakers are much smaller and much less powered than a home stereo, also the music stage has to be set in a far smaller area. So when researching car stereos remember that it is not at all the same as home stereos. You actually CAN get good sound in a home stereo without a sub, but in the car, entire instruments will be just plain MISSING.
I used the same CD to demo before and after I got the sub and the difference was 'night and day' better with the sub, believe me I didn't want a sub either(esp. since I cannot stand boom boom cars), but after I heard Sting and Madonna with a sub and heard new instruments that I hadn't heard before, I just couldn't go back...
One note I will make is that you have to have the sub tuned for your system for it to enhance the sound. The frequency cutoff has to be matched to your other speakers and this is a very important step. This is done at the crossover, then fine tuned on the amp...
Also, if the sub is tuned too strong or too low or high, you will not get optimal sound out of your system as a whole.
Again, all I can say is Go and Listen...
And go to a professional shop- don't 'do it yourself' if you want it done right.
And use your Own CD for ALL COMPARISONS.
That being said, a sub is hidden in your car. It is in the trunk, and if you wish, is quite easily removable ;-)
My interior looks 100% stock, and I won't have it any other way.
Thanks for the additional info 3.
I don't buy audio gear at Circuit City. ;-)
If you're interested, here's a good Stereophile review of the
Dunlavy SC-IV:
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?166
This is a review of the "low-end" model, which runs $5,999/pair.
It was named Stereophile's "Loudspeaker of the Year."
The SC-V model runs $12,995/pair SC-V and the SC-VI runs
$24,995/pair.
All use paper cones.
I'd take the Crutchfield advice with a grain of salt, since they
know most factory speakers are crap, use paper drivers, and
every driver they sell pretty mush uses non-paper cones.
But there are practical reasons not to use paper cones in a car,
such as moisture, heat, etc.
Paper is not necessarily 'better' or 'worse' than any other
material -- it comes down how the overall speaker design is
implemented.
Glad you're happy with your sound system.
I don't buy audio gear at Circuit City. ;-)
If you're interested, here's a good Stereophile review of the
Dunlavy SC-IV:
http://www.stereophile.com/showarchives.cgi?166
This is a review of the "low-end" model, which runs $5,999/pair.
It was named Stereophile's "Loudspeaker of the Year."
The SC-V model runs $12,995/pair SC-V and the SC-VI runs
$24,995/pair.
All use paper cones.
I'd take the Crutchfield advice with a grain of salt, since they
know most factory speakers are crap, use paper drivers, and
every driver they sell pretty mush uses non-paper cones.
But there are practical reasons not to use paper cones in a car,
such as moisture, heat, etc.
Paper is not necessarily 'better' or 'worse' than any other
material -- it comes down how the overall speaker design is
implemented.
Glad you're happy with your sound system.
William,
Once again, car audio and home audio are entirely different animals...
And did you see the date on your article?
It's from '98.
Again, I'll repeat- they used to make All speakers including very expensive high end speakers out of paper. Now they have manufacturing technologies to use better materials- kevlar, titanium, and silk- and get vastly better quality and durability (IE less sound degredation over time).
Sure you can get good quality out of paper, but are you really willing to spend $5,000-$10,000 to do it?
In my research I set my price cap at $2500 for the entire system (and I came in at $1,600 when all was done).
In that price range there is nothing whatsoever which is highly rated by any reputable source, which is made of paper.
If you can find an exception- let me know.
Thanks-
Once again, car audio and home audio are entirely different animals...
And did you see the date on your article?
It's from '98.
Again, I'll repeat- they used to make All speakers including very expensive high end speakers out of paper. Now they have manufacturing technologies to use better materials- kevlar, titanium, and silk- and get vastly better quality and durability (IE less sound degredation over time).
Sure you can get good quality out of paper, but are you really willing to spend $5,000-$10,000 to do it?
In my research I set my price cap at $2500 for the entire system (and I came in at $1,600 when all was done).
In that price range there is nothing whatsoever which is highly rated by any reputable source, which is made of paper.
If you can find an exception- let me know.
Thanks-
All of those materials existed in speaker manufacture before
1998... Yet the paper cone speaker won "Loudspeaker of the
Year."
Your point that all paper cones are sonically inferior to other
materials, is simply false.
Not all such speakers are this expensive -- my point was that one
material cannot be ruled out simply because it 'looks cheap'.
Sonus Faber speakers also use paper drivers, and they range
from only hundreds, to thousands per pair.
These are also highly rated by Stereophile magazine...
1998... Yet the paper cone speaker won "Loudspeaker of the
Year."
Your point that all paper cones are sonically inferior to other
materials, is simply false.
Not all such speakers are this expensive -- my point was that one
material cannot be ruled out simply because it 'looks cheap'.
Sonus Faber speakers also use paper drivers, and they range
from only hundreds, to thousands per pair.
These are also highly rated by Stereophile magazine...
Anyone have experience with the "Phat" players that can be trunk mount ???
I thought I heard another poster really liked it.
I am not a stereophile am sticking with the factory HK upgraded system 2004, but would like to possibly purchase the the "Phat" deck as opposed to the 6 disc changer.
Any opinions from guys that have run the Phat decks..??
Shief asked this & I am curious as well ???
I thought I heard another poster really liked it.
I am not a stereophile am sticking with the factory HK upgraded system 2004, but would like to possibly purchase the the "Phat" deck as opposed to the 6 disc changer.
Any opinions from guys that have run the Phat decks..??
Shief asked this & I am curious as well ???
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